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Ted Turner
Former Vice Chairman, AOL Time Warner, Inc.; Founder, CNN
Answers to Written Questions from the Floor:
Narda Zacchino: I want to point out, before we begin, that a number of you asked questions about the shareholder suit and the issue with AOL Time Warner and the issues with the SEC. I would like to just say in the beginning that Mr. Turner cannot talk about that issue because it's in litigation -
Ted Turner: Narda, I can say one thing: As the largest individual shareholder, it's been brutal.Zacchino: You had me worried for a minute there. The first question I'd like to ask you is, Is there a way to rid the world of weapons of mass destruction?
Turner: Yes, there is. That's a question we set up. Maura, give me five. It was my assistant who thought of that.
The problem with nuclear arsenals being on hair-trigger alert is because the Russians really don't trust us and we don't trust them. For instance, we could say, No launch for 24 hours. That would give them a whole day to check with their congress - at least call their children and grandchildren and say goodbye. Twenty-four hours, then you can launch! The problem is, they think we might cheat and launch in 23 hours, and we think the same thing. So we can't figure out how to stand down.
Sam Nunn, who is my co-chair at the Nuclear Threat Initiative, and I talked about this a lot with a bunch of generals and other people who really know. That's the problem with getting these weapons of hair-trigger alert. But there is a possibility, it works for everybody, but you have to have everybody - and remember there are nine countries now if North Korea really does have a nuclear weapon, there are eight for sure - and everybody's got to play under the same rules. There are a lot of people who want to keep nuclear weapons. There are a lot.
How many people in this room - this will really be good, you're going to have two chances to vote. One will be if you want to see the world completely rid of nuclear weapons, and the other is if you think we ought to save a few hundred or thousand; you know, just enough to terrorize each other and just in case you decide later on you want to bomb somebody. You get rid of them all, it's going to be harder to do. They call these people abolitionists and preservationists.
How many of you are for abolishing nuclear weapons? Raise your hands. Okay.
How many want to keep some? Come on, there's more of you than that! There's nothing wrong with it; I mean you have a right to it. You think they make us safer.
Here's the deal: You get everybody to agree - like the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty already does. The countries that don't have nuclear weapons resign that they are not going to make them. The countries that do have them agree to get rid of 10 percent of them a year for 10 years. That way we don't get rid of them all at once. It's a 10-year phase out program, and if we don't like it like in five years when we only have 5,000 left, not 10,000, we could stop and hold on to them if we wanted to. You could stop; you wouldn't be getting rid of all of them at once. But you're reducing 10 percent a year for 10 years. Say we have 10,000 of them; we'd get rid of a thousand a year. If India has 10, they'd get rid of one a year. And if there was a fraction you'd round them. North Korea, if they have one, they can keep it until the tenth year; be generous - you know, in the spirit of compromise. But that would work, that would work. It's better than any other solution I've heard because I've never heard of another one because that's the reason we haven't got rid of them - nobody can figure out how to do it.
It's the same thing with smallpox. In Atlanta, my hometown, we have a repository there at the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). They've got smallpox; they've got a freezer full of it. They've got popsicles in one freezer and smallpox in another. And they're not using it for research anymore; they're keeping it. You know why? Because the Russians got a place in Russia where they've got some, too - those are the only two known stocks in the world.
Now we're going to inoculate the whole armed services of the United States because somebody might get the Russian stuff and let smallpox out. Why don't we just destroy those two stocks of smallpox? We don't need it anymore for research. I've checked into that. I've read books on the subject. They've got the abolitionists and the preservationists, too. Guess who's winning? The preservationists. They want to keep it; they want the smallpox vaccine. We might need it to give it to the Russians some day. The trouble is with smallpox, or any of these diseases, if you give it to them, you might get it, too. Is it stupid or not?
Now how many of you are abolitionists as far as smallpox is concerned? How many are preservationists?
There's one. Two, good for you - and it's a woman, too. That's great. I hope your kids aren't the ones that get it. It's a mean damn disease. In fact, think about this: The greatest medical accomplishment in our history was the eradication of smallpox. It is the only disease we've ever eradicated. We're working very hard with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and others to eradicate polio. We're 90-something percent of the way there and we're going to finish it off, too, because humanity needs a win.
The greatest scientific achievement, in my opinion, was putting a man on the moon; and the greatest social achievement was the peaceful end of the Cold War. Never before in history had there been an armament buildup like the Cold War that didn't end in war. Those are all things that have happened in our lifetime and we can be real proud of them. Let's give ourselves a big round of applause. We don't do everything wrong.
All right, let's have another question. If we go that slowly with these questions, we'll only get to one or two more.
Zacchino: I promise, no more planted questions. I have to regain a little credibility here.
Turner: It's my fault, not yours.
Zacchino: That's the last planted question. What are the consequences of the Bush administration's actions on the United Nations? You gave a billion dollars to this world organization.
Turner: I've already said I love the UN.
Zacchino: Is it irrelevant when the most powerful nation in the world says it is?
Turner: Well, I think it was an unfortunate choice of terms. There is no question that damage has been done to the UN and international agreements and institutions of all types. The damage has been done to NATO, and we started NATO. We started the UN. We were one of the signatories and one of the strongest believers in the UN. We learned our lesson - at least we learned it back then - by staying out of the League of Nations, World War II started and God knows what else. If we had joined the League of Nations and supported them maybe there wouldn't have been World War II. You never know, but you think about it and you wonder.
I can never remember, in my history, that the Republicans, when they won elections, they never called Democrats irrelevant; and I never remember hearing a member of the Democratic Party ever refer to the Republicans in that way. Irrelevant is a very strong word to use when somebody votes the way you don't like them to. The whole idea of voting is that you are supposed vote your conscience, and when you try to intimidate somebody who votes - I think it's great that Germany voted against war myself. Germany has had enough wars; they don't like war. If you'd been in Germany in 1917 or 1941, you wouldn't like war, either. The Germans have a right not to like war, and so do the Russians. Russia was burned to the ground pretty much in World War II. We were spared that. We only lost a couple hundred thousand people in World War II - they lost millions. Not a single bomb, except at Pearl Harbor, ever fell on a U.S. city. Their cities were blown to smithereens. France was pretty well destroyed, too, and occupied for a number of years. Those who have lots of experience with war don't like it.
We're sitting over here; we've been safe - up until now. But with nuclear arsenals we're not safe anymore, either. I think we ought to be careful. The thing that scares me about wars is everybody always thought the war is going to be over in a couple months and everybody's going to come home and we're going to win. That's what they thought in the Civil War. I'm a big Civil War buff - Gettysburg, Gods and Generals. When wars start they sometimes spin out of control. And with nuclear arsenals I think we need to be very, very careful about going to war. That's just the way I feel. I'm older than our president. I never fought in a war, though I was in the service. Very few of our politicians are old enough to be in the service now. But back when I was a kid, everybody went into the service; it was considered something that you did.
At least I'm a veteran, but I didn't fight. I've never killed anybody, and what's more, I don't intend to kill anybody. I would rather be killed than kill anybody. I don't carry a gun. If someone wanted to shoot me right now I'd be happy to go, if you want to know the truth. The way I look at life: life's like a grade B movie - and I've made plenty of them: You don't want to walk out in the middle of it, but you wouldn't want to sit through it again. Next question.
Zacchino: All right -
Turner: I've made very few grade B movies. Most of 'em were grade A.
Zacchino: You may not want to kill him, but you were quoted as saying you'd like to take a swing at Rupert Murdoch. Given the recent ratings on FOX News, has he KO'd you without ever having had to lace up?
Turner: No! I'm not running CNN anyway, ha ha ha. The great thing about being fired is that I'm not responsible anymore. I'm in the restaurant business. We don't have any restaurants in California yet, but one of these days you'll drive down the street and there'll be a Ted's Montana Grill pop up. Stop in for a bison burger. Just because your ratings are bigger doesn't mean you're better, either. All ratings gives you is the size of the audience. It's not how big you are, it's how good you are that really counts.
Just remember in Germany in 1940 - there were more Nazis than non-Nazis. That doesn't mean just because there is more of them that's right. Right?
Zacchino: There were a lot of questions on CNN. What do you think of the quality of news broadcast on CNN today compared with the good-quality, honest news broadcast 15 years ago?
Turner: How many of you think CNN is as good as it was five years ago? How many think it was better five years ago? Yeah! That's when I was there. Okay, this audience thinks it was better then. Of course we're all old-timers, too, and we liked it the way it was don't we? There's nothing wrong with that.
Zacchino: What is the greatest shortcoming of the media in general today, then - if you want to talk about the media in general -
Turner: I want to talk about the media in general. I've been in the media. But you're asking the questions for Christ's sake.
Zacchino: No, wait, they ask the questions.
Turner: I'll take a swing at anything you can throw across. If I can't answer it, I'll tell you I can't.
Zacchino: You said you'd volunteer -
Turner: I think the media is too concentrated, too few people are controlling too much - particularly considering that I'm not one of 'em.Zacchino: So how does that hurt democracy?
Turner: Listen - can you imagine if Rupert Murdoch controlled everything, instead of just 20 percent of what we see? He promoted the war because it's good for his newspapers and good for his television and because he's a warmonger. He doesn't care what he does. I'm telling you, this is heavy. Did you see the people cheering, saying, Thank God we've gone to war finally? He promoted it. I said this in one the trades in the broadcast business last week, I said I call it "Murdoch's War." He's a William Randolph Hearst. Remember, William Randolph Hearst liked to brag about the fact that he started the Spanish-American War with his papers. It's not hard to do, all you do is fan the flames of hatred.
Zacchino: This is a little different question. Could you please comment on the lack of business ethics in corporate America, the greed of CEOs to take huge raises when their companies are losing money? I think we just had an example of that today with American Airlines.
Turner: Do I have to answer that? Of course I'm against greed and I'm against all the bad things. I don't like it. I mean, I was always ethical; I never did anything wrong. If you ask my wives, they would say he did do some things wrong, but basically that was about it. Pretty harmless.
I'm telling you the truth, for God's sake. I'm doing the best I can.
Zacchino: You're doing very well so far.
Turner: Thank you.
Zacchino: Please address the question of guns and butter: in other words, physical security of the nation versus economic security. Do we really have the right balance?
Turner: I think that power today comes in economic power, not military power. And we have so many things we need to do with our resources - with scarce resources. More young black men in the United States are in prison than are in college, and it costs $50,000 a year to keep somebody in prison and $20,000 a year to keep them in college. What are we doing about that? Very little, except locking them up as fast as we can.
We need a whole new energy program. We need to be moving towards hydrogen and wind power and away from fossil fuels, and that takes a lot of money, but all the money is going into weapons now. We don't have any money to do anything. We can't even keep up the Golden Gate Bridge, it's going to fall down - you watch and see. But we're gonna have jet planes. We've got thousands of nuclear bombs; we'll bomb anybody that we don't like; all they got to do is just say they don't like us.
Zacchino: There were several questions on the environment -
Turner: Good. I like the environment.
Zacchino: - and on urban sprawl.
Turner: We've only got one environment; we have to take care of it. What's next?
Zacchino: So how do you take care of it? What do you think about Bush's -
Turner: I do everything I can to take care of it. I've been trying to buy it and protect it. That's right.
Zacchino: This is difficult.
Turner: Well, would you rather be all down in the mouth? We're dealing with a really serious subject, and we're doing it in a way that we can all smile.
Zacchino: There were a lot of questions about buffalo.
Turner: Buffalo, I like 'em. I've got 35,000 of 'em. They're good for you. They have half as much fat and cholesterol as chicken. When you eat beef, it's just like coating your heart with glue in there with the cholesterol and fat that bison don't have.
Zacchino: Should buffalo be in supermarkets?
Turner: It is, some places. It's a free country. Not many of them - but a few carry it.
Zacchino: So you like them, but you'll also eat them?
Turner: I do eat 'em. Gotta to eat. I don't like it, it's kind of cannibalistic. But I can't live on green beans.
How many of you like to eat meat? How many don't? All right, but the meateaters got it.Zacchino: I'm going to get a little serious, now.
Turner: Good.
Zacchino: I can be serious, but are you going to be serious? Your thoughts on how peace might be achieved in the Middle East. Should the Palestinians be given their own state?
Turner: Yes. I really think that we are not going to have peace in Israel/Palestine until the Israelis move out of the occupied territories. It's going to be difficult. Give the Palestinians a state and work real hard to try and be friends. It's not going to be easy - but look at what happened in South Africa. If you'd asked me 20 years ago if I thought that South Africa with Apartheid would be able to peacefully resolve their problems, or would we have peace in the Middle East, in Israel and Palestine sooner, I would have said that it was a much bigger problem in South Africa. But because of Mandela and de Klerk - with the right kind of leadership, you can get it done. They've pretty well come to a peaceful solution in Northern Ireland, too.
We really do need peace in the Middle East for the peace and security in the whole world. It's a constant sore that hurts everybody, and it's almost unlivable for the Palestinians and the Israelis now. Who would want to live in that kind of fear all the time? It breaks my heart. I've been there; I know the people; I know the situation quite well. It will be a tremendous victory for humanity if we can get that situation resolved.
Zacchino: Is the United States doing enough toward that end? Where is the leadership in the Middle East?
Turner: I think it's going to be very difficult for the United States to broker a peace by itself. We are so identified with Israel. We really are not bipartisan. We're partisan - at least we're seen as that. It's hard to argue with it. But Israel is an ally of ours. We are much more guarded in our relationships with the Arab world. So I think it really needs an international solution. We can do a lot of good to help in it, but I don't think we can do it by ourselves. Mainly, the Israelis and the Palestinians have got to want to compromise and quit in living in terror and fear the way they are living now.
Zacchino: Do you think the Iraq war is going to play any role in what happens in Israel?
Turner: I really don't know. Certainly, I think that peace in the Middle East is possible with or without some of these regimes over there. I think it is possible regardless of what the regimes are. But everybody's going to have to sign off on it. All the neighbors of Israel will have to be party to a permanent solution. There can't be a permanent solution without Syria and Jordan and whoever is running Iraq and Iran and Egypt, of course, too. They all have to be parties to the final treaty - if there is one.
Zacchino: Going back to Iraq for a moment - what role should religion play in rebuilding Iraq? Is there going to be a choice in that?
Turner: I believe in freedom of religion. One of the problems with Iraq is going to be the different political, ethnic and religious differences that they have - to try and get them to function as a single state the way we do here in America. We all have learned how to get along here pretty much, but they haven't really learned that over there: the Kurds and the Shi'ites and the Sunnis. They don't get along as well as we do, and in order to have a successful country you have to learn to get along. And in order to have a successful, sustainable world we have to learn to get along. That means tolerance; we got to have tolerance and a feeling of brotherhood towards each other - but mainly tolerance.
Zacchino: You volunteered to CNN to go to Iraq and be a correspondent.
Turner: If nobody else would go.
Zacchino: What would you have done differently? Were you proud of CNN's coverage?
Turner: I would have been there. But if I would gotten thrown out - Nic Robertson got thrown out - if they threw me out there was nothing I could do about it. It's kind of what made CNN's reputation, with Peter Arnett - wacky though he may be. You have to be a little bit crazy to be a war correspondent anyway, let me tell you. I know because I've been involved with CNN. To have that kind of courage - or lack of good sense - to stay in a war zone, there's kind of a thin line between the two, you know what I'm talking about? But rather than us leaving, and leaving NBC there, or CBS or ABC I would have gone and risked my life because, at the time, I didn't really care that much anyway, to tell you the truth. If they would've dropped a bomb on me they would've been doing me a favor.
Zacchino: In this case it'll be over soon. What would you have done differently as a correspondent?
Turner: I wouldn't have done anything differently. I'm not a professional correspondent. I would have done this: "Hey the bombs are falling down. Watch out! Here it is! Whoa!" I would have been great; everybody would have been watching I'll tell you that. We'd have won the ratings.
Zacchino: Let me ask you a different way.
Turner: We're gonna kiss our behinds goodbye…
Zacchino: Were you proud of the coverage, of the media, of CNN in particular, and of the media in general, or do you think it was good? It was 24-hour coverage -
Turner: Which war?
Zacchino: The ongoing war in Iraq.
Turner: Well wait a minute, there was one in 1991 and there is the one now.
Zacchino: Well, was there a difference between the two?
Turner: Of course there was.
Zacchino: What was the difference in the media coverage?
Turner: The difference was that in '91 we were the only ones on the air. That's a big difference, baby. We had the story pretty much to ourselves. We had 100 percent share of the audience.
Zacchino: Was that a good thing for the -
Turner: It made me rich.
Zacchino: - American people and the world audience? Aside from your personal gain -
Turner: Christ, you're asking me questions, I'm trying to answer them. I mean I didn't expect you to rip me. I'm not even getting paid for Christ's sake.
Zacchino: I'm a journalist.
Turner: I didn't even ask for my airline travel. It cost me $50,000 bucks to be here. Thanks for the hotel room.
Zacchino: You know what, I'm not getting paid, either.
Turner: You're doing a great job! But you didn't have to come 3,000 miles.
Zacchino: Let me ask you this, although I will reveal a bias of mine: I have been an admirer of yours for what you did in starting CNN. I remember being in an audience once where you described how you started it and why you started it. I think I know your feelings on the media now, and you can talk about it if you like. But are you in a position now where you would, if you have the financial ability, start your own network again?
Turner: I don't think so. The space is really filled with the people who are already there. The media companies have gotten so large and so concentrated that an independent voice has an almost impossible time getting started now in any kind of meaningful way. And that's a great tragedy for our country. There are really five companies that control 99 percent of what we hear, read and see, and it's not a healthy situation.
When I mentioned earlier about concentration, I really meant it. There is no company out there, none of those companies, not Viacom or News Corporation or Disney that really, I think - not the big television powers - that really have the public interest primarily at heart. They've had their own selfish, financial interest at heart and they would do just about anything for a buck. I hate to say that but it's the truth, in my opinion. I'm one guy and I'm on the outside looking in. You can say, Well, I'm bitter - and I am a little bitter. I can't help but be. I thought I was doing a good job and I got kicked out, but that's what happens when you merge with a bigger company. Be really careful - for those entrepreneurs who are thinking about doing it.
But I was tired, too. I had worked real hard for a long time, and I was tired when I sold out. I wish I hadn't done it. It was the biggest mistake I made. But on the other hand, the good thing about it was that I would have probably never gotten into philanthropy at the level I did if I'd been running one of those media companies because I would have so busy running the media company I wouldn't have had the time to concentrate on the philanthropy. So it gave me a whole new life, which is really very rewarding. When I think about the overall situation right now, because of the war, and just finding out today that the North Koreans say they have nuclear weapons - that's the ninth nuclear power - that's a great setback for what I'm working towards. So I'm a little more depressed today than I would normally be, but still I can be cheerful when I make a speech - right? And I think we're about out of time.
Zacchino: No, we have time for one more.
Turner: According to my clock. My father said, Son, you can't always be right but you can always be on time. I try and always be on time.
Zacchino: There's actually a three-minute warning.
Turner: I want to get my medal, too.
Zacchino: You will get your medal, but we have like three minutes -
Turner: Three minutes, but it'll take that long for the medal. I've got to fly out of here tonight. I'm going a long way.
Zacchino: Give us a couple more minutes.
Turner: Boy, you're tough.
Zacchino: Since you say that -
Turner: What's the question?
Zacchino: Media concentration you're suggesting is a real threat -
Turner: Too much of it - particularly when I'm not concentrating it myself. It would be much better if I was doing it.
Zacchino: - to our freedom, so what can people do -
Turner: Write their government.
Zacchino: - to raise the alarm about this? Because media in general don't -
Turner: Let their government officials know. California always votes the right way as far as I'm concerned. But the trouble is -
Zacchino: Is that right?
Turner: Yea, California, congratulations! But when you get to Wyoming and some states in the middle of the country they vote the other way, and there's lots of people out there.
Zacchino: I have one last question.
Turner: Thank God. Is it about religion?
Zacchino: No. Well, I don't know - it could be about religion, you have to decide. What will you put on your tombstone?
Turner: I have nothing more to say.
Zacchino: I swear, it's here.
Turner: That's what it is, too.
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